In the tenth part of Rethinking the Ekklesia, I am joined by Todd Wiebe in conversation discussing Ivan Illich, particularly his argument about what has happened to the church and how it may unfold in the future.
In the mid-1960s I spent a day on the westside of Chicago in the presence of Illich who was invited to engage a number of black pastors and community organizers. His pedagogical approach was astonishing. He sought a mutual language through which we could think deeply about institutions, revolution, and our relationship to the poor locally and in other countries.
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